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Forum Home > Poetry > Poems of the Decade

Neil Bowen
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Posts: 837

boutnothing at May 4, 2016 at 3:06 PM

Sorry to interrupt, I just wondered if you saw my reply about comparing poems via language/form? (The Furthest Distance)...

Thank you for stop me wittering to myself. No, sorry. Could you re-post Miss Boutnothing?

May 4, 2016 at 3:07 PM Flag Quote & Reply

boutnothing
Member
Posts: 11

Neil Bowen at May 4, 2016 at 3:07 PM

boutnothing at May 4, 2016 at 3:06 PM

Sorry to interrupt, I just wondered if you saw my reply about comparing poems via language/form? (The Furthest Distance)...

Thank you for stop me wittering to myself. No, sorry. Could you re-post Miss Boutnothing?

You said: How about comparing The Furthest Distance in terms of its form or language? Anybody got any idea how we might do that?

It's written in free verse mirroring instability, enjambment is used as though time is passing like in The Map Woman and also it is in 1st person narrative?

Do get yourself a cuppa! aha

May 4, 2016 at 3:09 PM Flag Quote & Reply

pol$ki
Member
Posts: 9

Did you see my reply on "Out of the Bag"? It's around the same time as when I first announced myself in

May 4, 2016 at 3:10 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Neil Bowen
Administrator
Posts: 837

Sorry, no, I'll get back to the Bag once we've considered the form of Furthest Distance, if that's okay? 

May 4, 2016 at 3:11 PM Flag Quote & Reply

pol$ki
Member
Posts: 9

Neil Bowen at May 4, 2016 at 3:11 PM

Sorry, no, I'll get back to the Bag once we've considered the form of Furthest Distance, if that's okay? 

Sure :)

May 4, 2016 at 3:11 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Neil Bowen
Administrator
Posts: 837

Firstly, I don't think it's in free verse. Yes, there's no metre, but there is a rhyme scheme, mostly loosely rhymed couplets. There also repeated quatrains, another form of regularity. However, these holding patterns are knocked about a fair bit, particularly at the start by the poem's content and through the use of enjambment and caesura. However, the pattern settles as the poet settles in the last three stanzas.

May 4, 2016 at 3:15 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Neil Bowen
Administrator
Posts: 837

pol$ki at May 4, 2016 at 3:10 PM

Did you see my reply on "Out of the Bag"? It's around the same time as when I first announced myself in

I see. No, I don't think there's any great significance to there being four parts to the poem. I think the main thing is that the poem tries to tie together this memories and experiences that seem so disparate and so separated over time and space. Hence the lingusitic echoing in the poem's language and the underlying themes of origins, the sources of creativity and of curative powers. 

May 4, 2016 at 3:18 PM Flag Quote & Reply

boutnothing
Member
Posts: 11

Neil Bowen at May 4, 2016 at 3:15 PM

Firstly, I don't think it's in free verse. Yes, there's no metre, but there is a rhyme scheme, mostly loosely rhymed couplets. There also repeated quatrains, another form of regularity. However, these holding patterns are knocked about a fair bit, particularly at the start by the poem's content and through the use of enjambment and caesura. However, the pattern settles as the poet settles in the last three stanzas.

Ok thank you that's good to know!

So with this in mind, what poem would I be able to compare to this in terms of language/form/structure?

May 4, 2016 at 3:19 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Neil Bowen
Administrator
Posts: 837

Neil Bowen at May 4, 2016 at 3:15 PM

Firstly, I don't think it's in free verse. Yes, there's no metre, but there is a rhyme scheme, mostly loosely rhymed couplets. There also repeated quatrains, another form of regularity. However, these holding patterns are knocked about a fair bit, particularly at the start by the poem's content and through the use of enjambment and caesura. However, the pattern settles as the poet settles in the last three stanzas.

Attemps to control chaotic, destablising content or wrestle it into some kind of order feature in quite a few of these poems, I think. War Correspondent is a particularly fine example.

May 4, 2016 at 3:20 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Neil Bowen
Administrator
Posts: 837

I would read 'On her Blindness' and 'Effects' as using form in a similar way. The holding pattern of the couplet form in the former, for example, is put under considerable strain, akin to the rational mind trying to deal with grief.

May 4, 2016 at 3:23 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Matthias
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Posts: 6

regarding the poem out of the bag which do you beleive is the best poem to go with it in the comparative esssay and why ? 
many thanks in advance

May 4, 2016 at 3:23 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Neil Bowen
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Posts: 837

Matthias at May 4, 2016 at 3:23 PM

regarding the poem out of the bag which do you beleive is the best poem to go with it in the comparative esssay and why ? 
many thanks in advance

Good question, it does rather seem to stand out from the others, not least in terms of complexity. A major aspect of the poem is the relationship between mother and son and a number of other poems explore either this relationship or similar mother child - child to mother ones. 

May 4, 2016 at 3:27 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Neil Bowen
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Posts: 837

I think there's a number of other reflective, philsophical poems too, such as Burnside's History, which also compares BIG stories (akin to Heaney's reference to myths and Gods) to small personal history.

May 4, 2016 at 3:29 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Neil Bowen
Administrator
Posts: 837

Well, if no-one's got any more questions, perhaps I should start marking my sixth formers essays on 'King Lear'. Or perhaps just lie down for a bit in a darkened room. Bit annoying how new posts are not showing up under 'Recent Forum Posts' - I'll get on to webs.com and see if I can get it fixed. 

May 4, 2016 at 3:36 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Aimee
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Posts: 3

What do you think the Fox represents in ' A fox in the national history museum of Wales'?

May 4, 2016 at 3:39 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Astral
Member
Posts: 22

To respond to some of the earlier comments...

1) Eat Me can be interpreted as a sensual poem - it explores the whole rather dubious sub-culture of fat-fetishism and the role of the male as a feeder. This also links in with patriarchal ideas as the feeding eventually ends up in the speaker's complete dependence upon him. The swift change in events creates, as you have said, a supreme irony at the end - she has killed the hand that fed her.

2) I think that the structure of 'Furthest Distances' becomes more stable at the end to symbolise the speaker's growing acceptance and understanding of their lot in life, albeit rather a poor one. The Volta seems to occur with the word "however" indicating that the speaker is appraising themselves. The reference to "routine evictions" suggests a regular moving on whilst the acknowledgement that "these are my souvenirs" indicates that the speaker has gained a new level of understanding.

3) One of the most interesting and powerful poems in the collection seems to be 'Giuseppe' in my opinion, as it explores the way in which apparently ordinary people can become involved in dreadful acts of violence. The poem's simplicity of language allows the reader to ponder on the images. The lines "they took a ripe golden roe/ from her side" allow interpretation. What is the roe? Why is it golden? Why is it in her side? The use of magic realism serves to make the poem very disturbing.

4) The other poem that I found powerful was 'You, Shiva, and My Mum' - there is a lot of mileage in analysing the title to begin with...

--
May 4, 2016 at 3:41 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Neil Bowen
Administrator
Posts: 837

Aimee at May 4, 2016 at 3:39 PM

What do you think the Fox represents in ' A fox in the national history museum of Wales'?

Hi Aimee, well a colleague has written about this poem at length in our second 'Art of Poetry' books on this anthology, so that's the best place to go. In my opinion Minhinnick's fox is like Ted Hughes' and embodies the imagination and perhaps even more specifically the spirit of poetry. What do you think?

May 4, 2016 at 3:42 PM Flag Quote & Reply

boutnothing
Member
Posts: 11

Astral at May 4, 2016 at 3:41 PM

To respond to some of the earlier comments...

1) Eat Me can be interpreted as a sensual poem - it explores the whole rather dubious sub-culture of fat-fetishism and the role of the male as a feeder. This also links in with patriarchal ideas as the feeding eventually ends up in the speaker's complete dependence upon him. The swift change in events creates, as you have said, a supreme irony at the end - she has killed the hand that fed her.

2) I think that the structure of 'Furthest Distances' becomes more stable at the end to symbolise the speaker's growing acceptance and understanding of their lot in life, albeit rather a poor one. The Volta seems to occur with the word "however" indicating that the speaker is appraising themselves. The reference to "routine evictions" suggests a regular moving on whilst the acknowledgement that "these are my souvenirs" indicates that the speaker has gained a new level of understanding.

3) One of the most interesting and powerful poems in the collection seems to be 'Giuseppe' in my opinion, as it explores the way in which apparently ordinary people can become involved in dreadful acts of violence. The poem's simplicity of language allows the reader to ponder on the images. The lines "they took a ripe golden roe/ from her side" allow interpretation. What is the roe? Why is it golden? Why is it in her side? The use of magic realism serves to make the poem very disturbing.

4) The other poem that I found powerful was 'You, Shiva, and My Mum' - there is a lot of mileage in analysing the title to begin with...

Thank you! :)

May 4, 2016 at 3:43 PM Flag Quote & Reply

boutnothing
Member
Posts: 11

Neil Bowen at May 4, 2016 at 3:23 PM

I would read 'On her Blindness' and 'Effects' as using form in a similar way. The holding pattern of the couplet form in the former, for example, is put under considerable strain, akin to the rational mind trying to deal with grief.

Thank you so much :)

May 4, 2016 at 3:43 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Neil Bowen
Administrator
Posts: 837

Astral at May 4, 2016 at 3:41 PM

To respond to some of the earlier comments...

1) Eat Me can be interpreted as a sensual poem - it explores the whole rather dubious sub-culture of fat-fetishism and the role of the male as a feeder. This also links in with patriarchal ideas as the feeding eventually ends up in the speaker's complete dependence upon him. The swift change in events creates, as you have said, a supreme irony at the end - she has killed the hand that fed her.

2) I think that the structure of 'Furthest Distances' becomes more stable at the end to symbolise the speaker's growing acceptance and understanding of their lot in life, albeit rather a poor one. The Volta seems to occur with the word "however" indicating that the speaker is appraising themselves. The reference to "routine evictions" suggests a regular moving on whilst the acknowledgement that "these are my souvenirs" indicates that the speaker has gained a new level of understanding.

3) One of the most interesting and powerful poems in the collection seems to be 'Giuseppe' in my opinion, as it explores the way in which apparently ordinary people can become involved in dreadful acts of violence. The poem's simplicity of language allows the reader to ponder on the images. The lines "they took a ripe golden roe/ from her side" allow interpretation. What is the roe? Why is it golden? Why is it in her side? The use of magic realism serves to make the poem very disturbing.

4) The other poem that I found powerful was 'You, Shiva, and My Mum' - there is a lot of mileage in analysing the title to begin with...

Hi Astral and thanks for these helpful and incisive comments. Entirely agree with you on all points! Except a 'volta' refers, I believe, specifically to the turn in a sonnet. I'm intrigued too by your comments about Padel's title. Would you care to elaborate?

May 4, 2016 at 3:45 PM Flag Quote & Reply

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